SED - 14 October 2013

[teddy_radiator]

TheHub(r) was on Your Carolina today, a local morning show, with his Freud's Last Session co-star. I was there and go to meet Ron, who plays Freud seems like a decent guy. You can see the broadcast HERE. They had final dress rehearsal tonight, and it looks like the performances are going to be very well attended.

One of the highlights of TH(r) doing this play is the lively discussions we have had about religion as a result. I was for years a committed Southern Baptist, now I'm an angry agnostic. It's allowed me to talk through a lot of things that have been bothering me about organised religion for years, and I have finally turned my back on the Christian faith. It's hard to drop 50 years of ingrained belief, but I have, and it's left me with a lot of anger for the time I feel was wasted. Please don't get me wrong; I still have a very strong spiritual belief; I just no longer feel that organised religion and a belief in God are pre-requisites for that. I cannot reconcile God in my life anymore.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make this a religious rant, but I'm angry. To paraphrase Malcolm X, I feel I've been hoodwinked and bamboozled. I have to change the reasons I do certain things, and stop doing others at all. I may lose friends over it. I hope not, but if you no longer wish to be friends with me because of it, I will understand. Actually, no I won't, but I'll accept it, because I have to.

I received my assignment for hp_halloween today and have already written it. That's what I love about a drabble challenge, it's really easy to do. Promptfest is proving to be not so easy. I lost about thirty minutes' work this evening when my pc crashed, and that took a little wind out of my sails. Oh well, if it was easy, everyone would be able to sweat blood.

This song is rattling around in my head - and who doesn't like to look at guitarist Nuno Bettencourt?

Comments

[madeleone]

Nice interview. Tell Hubs, to 'break a leg'. Hope opening night is a smash.

I kind of share some of your feelings about religion, so you won't be losing any friends here, babe, you're stuck with me I guess. I was raised Catholic from the time I was about eight years old. My dad was a lapsed Catholic who didn't give a damn, my mom had some kind of Methodist upbringing but didn't really follow anything, but my god fearing Irish-Catholic Grandma badgered them until they sent me to church, (they still didn't go). So I started going to church (catholic of course) with my best friend's family who lived down the road. I often wondered years later what people thought when this family with eight kids suddenly sprouted a ninth one in the the middle of the pack. :)

After high school I drifted away, and became a Christmas Catholic, for the most part, showing up at midnight mass once a year. Years later after all four of my kids had been born I basically started going to church again just because I freaked out that they they would grow up and feel a 'need' for 'something' and maybe join a cult or God forbid... become fundamentalist right wingers (no offense meant to anyone). *rolls eyes* But hey, it happened to my brother-in-law, he found God and turned into an ass. Well maybe he alreadywas one , but now he's an ass with religion, which is even worse.

About ten to fifteen years ago I sort of quietly became a solitary Pagan and follow my own path. I'm happy this way, so there. 'Thumbs nose at the world.'

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

I had to laugh at your comment about your BIL. I think that is the key for me - follow my own path. TheHubs(r) has attended several different churches in England, and he had already come to this intelligent conclusion. I clung onto my beliefs long after they ceased to have meaning for me, and now I'm frustrated with myself that I did.

I'm going to have to get over the time I wasted trying to buy into a meaningless divisive creed that has no relevance in my life. It will take awhile, and I wish I had done the same ten or fifteen years ago. I hate knowing I've wasted most of my spiritual life on religion.

[stgulik.livejournal.com]

Madeleone, I did that too! When my daughter was born, we started attending the local Unitarian church for a time, partly so she'd have a spiritual home she could turn to. But we all three got tired of the place after a few years. Time will tell if she turns around and joins a cult or something, LOL.

[kittylefish.livejournal.com]

hee. it was fun to see the hubs interviewed. :D

and i am a sucker for dudes with long hair, so i enjoyed the video.

regarding religion, etc., i am what we call a recovering catholic, because once they get their hooks in, it's hard to remove them completely, lol. i quit religion at about 18-19 years of age, so i guess i didn't have that feeling of having spent so much time with it. i don't think time is ever wasted, though, really - we are doing life to the best of our ability at any given moment. maybe you weren't ready to let go of religion any earlier. it does often play an important role in people's lives, and if you yank it out from under you when you aren't ready, that could be a bit traumatic. and if that's not a useful perspective, feel free to ignore it. <3

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Well, I think it's a very useful perspective.There were times when my religion was a balm to me. I just let it outstay its welcome. But yes, if I apply religion to my life the way I have applied other things, this is the best way to view it. And one that doesn't make me feel so stupid! ;)

[kittylefish.livejournal.com]

always best to choose a perspective that doesn't make us feel stupid, i think - self-appreciation above all else. ;D

[dickgloucester.livejournal.com]

Atheist here. *squish*

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

{{{hugs}}}

[lynnylou.livejournal.com]

Your Hubs did a nice interview. Hope the opening is fantastic.

I am really not a fan of organized religion myself. I have had to attend church for work when we take individuals who wish to attend services. I find myself just sitting there zoning out or whispering with the other staff.

I was raised by a atheist and when I asked what the other kids did a Sunday school Mom took me and signed me up and I did the whole conformation thing and so forth. I did have faith when I was younger but as I got older I started to question things like why would a merciful loving God allow such terrible thing to happen. So over the years I stopped going to the Lutheran church and I now more identify with being an agnostic.

Now here is a role reversal my Mom who was the atheist has found God a few years ago and I myself have the left the church. I always thought that was a bit ironic.

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Ironic indeed! My entire family are conservative Southern Baptists. We aren't the foot-washing, snake-handling kind, and I guess maybe that's why it took me so long to get up the energy to leave it. Church as far as my mother is concerned is as much about the social support group as the faith, and I can see the support/help group aspect of it as a positive thing.

But I can't believe in a God who created me in sin, then is too whimpy to look upon his creation because we are sinners until he kills his son and washes away our sin with his blood. That's too fucked up for me. In the Christian faith, you are in a no-win situation; you are too sinful for God to acknowledge, and always will be no matter what you do. Forgiveness is temporary; you breathe, ergo you sin. Nope. Not this little grey goose.

I have my spirituality, and that's good enough for me. I have been part of a church going family since I was a child. I was scared of not believing in it. Now I'm just pissed off I had no choice in the matter.

[kittylefish.livejournal.com]

one thing i have done recently is separate out the teaching of the man/master jesus from the christian church as it has been institutionalized. i think jesus was a fully enlightened spiritual master who had a lot of good things to say, and the church as it's been passed down was in the hands of people who wanted to use it to control the masses, so they picked and chose what teachings to allow. i totally cannot get behind all that sin bs either. i think the only true sin is to be unloving toward one another, which happens when we forget who we really are - our true essence as spirit/unconditional love.

*steps off soapbox* *butts out of thread*

[mimimanderly.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Hubs did so well in the interview! The play is going to be great. The hosts of the show seemed as dumb as bricks, though. Not familiar with Sigmund Freud??!! How is he even on TV, interviewing people?

As for religion, I went to a Catholic school and church for 8 years, but not because my parents were really religious; my dad didn't go to church at all, and my mom, only sporadically. They sent me there because public schools suck, and I got a good education. But to attend the school, one had to attend church services, so.... But I was the kid who was always questioning the nuns, asking why, and how could that happen, when.... Paul was brought up by religious freaks, and at one time wanted to be a Methodist minister. Although he didn't go to church, when we met, he was anxious about my soul, LOL. At that time, I was an agnostic. Later, after reading books on comparative religion, I realized that what I actually was was a Pagan. He gradually morphed into the agnostic he is now.

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Thanks, babe. The host, Jack Roper, used to have a sidekick named Kimberly, who was sharp and pretty and intelligent. She's moved on, and they just put a sub with Jack. The old ladies like him; he's a knob.

I only wished I'd had the courage to question. I never did. I've been motivated by fear all my life, and religion was one of the biggies. Now I'm just bitter about it. My entire family is very religious, and I just have to bite my tongue around them now. I don't want to hurt them; they love me, and I'd like to think they'd love me whether I am agnostic or not, but I can't be sure.

I just know that religion has screwed up more than it has helped, and while I don't want to turn militant about my agnosticism, I don't like the whole believe like sheep mentality of my family.

I think as souls go, yours is one of the most pure. Mine is all over the place, and now that I don't have to worry about it being condemned for the unpardonable sin of existence, I think mine will eventually calm down.

[lemonade8.livejournal.com]

As was said above, tell your hubs good wishes from Kansas and to break a leg. Can I say that I love the southern accents and the British one mixing up in one interview! LOL

You did not get a defriend from me, and I still hold with Christian beliefs! ((hugs)) I am not fundamentalist, though, and that probably helps me hold onto my faith a bit better than if I had to believe that everything written means exactly what it says the way it sounds to us in contemporary society without a bronze-age perspective. Now, ask me about hypocrisy and the churchies, and we will probably agree completely. ;D

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie! Excuse my anger; it's not aimed at Christians, it's at my own sheep mentality, and is a little out of focus at the moment. I'm in the buckle of the Bible belt, and you can't throw a rock without hitting a church here. TheHubs(r) has long been agnostic; I just realised that I had stopped really believing a long time ago - I was just too scared to admit it to myself. My frustration is at my own cowardice.

[lemonade8.livejournal.com]

Hey, you are so hard on yourself! Quit being mean to my Teddy girl! (())

We find our own way in our own time. You found your way later than you'd like, but maybe there were still things for you to learn about yourself or others and that's what kept you at it. It's hard to tell, could be like that!

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Thank you - I realise as I answer everyone's comments that I'm not so much angry with the church as I am with my own cowardice. I stopped truly believing years ago, but still held on to my beliefs out of fear. I was experiencing this huge spiritual growth through the knowledge of my Muse/Guardian/spirit guide Dahlra, and I couldn't separate that from the Godhead. Organised religion troubles me mightily.

I completely understand that feeling of abandonment; I was talking about this with TH(r) today. All my family are very religious, and I truly don't know how they will react if I were to confess that I no longer believe in God. There would be a lot of "I'm going to pray for you." I want to be big about it and say, "If it makes you feel better, then thank you." I know that they mean well; I am loved by my mother and aunts and uncles and cousins. But yes, there is that fear.

When my previous husband/Dom booted me out, the church was a lifeline, and helped me to get back on my feet. I still appreciate the love and tolerance I found there. But I just can't deal with trying to pretend I believe in the Christian god anymore. It will be strange; traditions will change forever in my mind, and will take on new and different meanings.

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Oh, dear. That is...oh wow. I'm sorry you both had to go through that. Why can't parents just say, "Well, it's something we don't have a lot of experience with, but we love you and we want you to be happy, so be patient with us while we learn"?

It's funny; I am doing some research for a fic I'm writing, and looked up Cernunnos on Tumblr for some visual inspiration. I was amazed at the level of worship there. I don't know why; but it just surprised me. So much fervent spirituality, and none of it was about sinning and needing redemption through grace and all that. Just communing with nature and trying to find inner peace and spiritual equalibrium. I can see the attraction, but I have no desire to trade one god for another one.

Thankfully, my Muse balks radically over the idea of being worshipped (he is quite frankly appalled by the idea! ;) but I think if anything will get me through this, it is his timeless love and strength.

[darklotus1211.livejournal.com]

The hubs comes across so well - and seems a truly warm and genuine fella. I don't doubt that, though, as your posts about him always shine with his praises. The premise of the play sounds very interesting, so I looked up to see if there was a production of it over here I could go to, but alas, I'm about five weeks too late. It turns out there was a run of it at the Theatre Royal in Sydney in August, but I'll keep my eye out for it as it may pop up at one of our smaller regional drama societies.

As to spirituality, self actualisation or simply trying to be the best person you can be (all interchangeable really regardless of the motivation) I agree with many of the comments made here. There are an infinite number of paths to the same destination and you have to find the one that's yours. Being force-marched or forcing yourself along one that you aren't comfortable with lessens your chance of reaching said destination considerably - and after all, isn't the journey itself a big, if not the most important part? No one knows what that destination will actually be, but the journey... ahhh, THAT we can definitely enjoy.

[ex-logospil.livejournal.com]

I understand completely what you have gone through re: religion. My own spiritual understanding is rather unconventional and eclectic nowadays ;-)

The way I look at things, if a system does not include everyone, I am not interested in it...

*very tender robed embrace*

[ex-logospil.livejournal.com]

♥ ♥ ♥

[ayerf.livejournal.com]

*hugs from a fellow sometimes angry agnostic*

[stgulik.livejournal.com]

I think I considered myself a Christian until I was ... ten or eleven, maybe? And then I moved on to agnosticism and nobody seemed to notice or care. Very apathetic religious upbringing, LOL. My father is a Christian, but the sort who enjoys the allegories in the Bible and considers them very wise. I admire that level of scholarship but never had the patience for it - I get too angry thinking of ways people use the Bible to keep other people down, and would rather have nothing to do with it. (edit: Guess that makes me an angry agnostic/athiest, too. Hello!)

[beffeysue.livejournal.com]

It's hard to drop 50 years of ingrained belief, but I have, and it's left me with a lot of anger for the time I feel was wasted.

I can't believe your 50 years were wasted. Those years informed the wonderful woman you are today; ergo, they weren't wasted.

The God of my understanding suites me very well.

Have you ever read anything by Christpher Moore? I think you'd enjoy one of his books. It's titled Lamb, the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal. It not only gave me food for thought, it had me laughing my ass off.

http://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-According-Christs-Childhood/dp/0380813815

You iz my friend for always. TheHubs interview was delightful!!!!!

[teddyradiator.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. It's been a long time coming, and the anger isn't so fresh and hair-trigger now. And yes, spiritually it's taken me a bit of time to come back on even keel. It was only after I realised that my "Muse" who is named Dahlra was something that had nothing to do with the church that I really started questioning the inconsistencies and fallacies of organised religion. And it has been a challenge to separate my spiritual beliefs from the religious ones. That, I think, will be an ongoing challenge, and one that my guide and helper is trying so hard to assist me with.

Thankfully, I have great friends like you who are so willing to help and listen. I appreciate it more than I can say.